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The GW&M InterviewNot Business As Usual
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PHOTO: Jana and Evan (and friends) on a stairway in Assisi, Italy. All photos for this interview courtesy Jana and Evan Eggers.
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From the backwoods of New Hampshire to the big city of Berlin — Jana and Evan Eggers had been living the expat life for about five months when they agreed to do this interview. Although they are used to being uprooted — Evan and Jana have lived in 18 different cities over the last 25 years in the US — living in a new land presented them with some new challenges. The husband-and-wife team came to Berlin to research the European market for Sabre's Logistics division. At the time of their interview, they were the only Sabre Logistics representatives in Europe. Evan used his business development and marketing talents, while Jana focused in her areas of software development and internationalization. See a Evan Eggers was born in Manhattan to parents of Italian, Irish and German descent. (He has enjoyed seeing many Eggers companies in Germany! The name means "plower" in German — an "Egge" is a harrow.) He was one of the founding employees of what he calls a "logistics optimization software company" (PTCG, Inc.) that was bought by Sabre in 1996. Hired as a developer, he spent most of his Sabre years as Director of Sales and Marketing. The first thing people most people in Evan's former office asked about when they found out about the move was if there were enough McD's and Cokes in Germany to support his habits. Jana Eggers grew up in Arkansas and didn't move away until she was 22. Since then she has made up for lost time by living in four states in eight years. After earning a degree in mathematics and computer science from Hendrix College in Conway, Arkansas, she worked in technical and management positions at PTCG, Los Alamos National Laboratories, and Lycos. Jana's travels in France and England after college graduation left her with a desire to live in another country and immerse herself in the culture. Also see Interview with Jana and Evan Eggers (1)The two of you have come out of an information technology business background. How did that bring you to Germany?Jana: Hmmm... the long story or the short one? Evan votes for the short one, so I will just expand "a little" on it. Germany was chosen for two main reasons: (1) Volkswagen, a client of ours for several years, was interested in a closer relationship, as they spun-off a new company in the area of telematics, which means in-vehicle tracking and communications, and (2) Sabre did not currently have a sales and marketing office in Germany. As with all stories, it isn't quite that simple, but that's close enough. Evan: Sabre is widely recognized for its work in the airline and electronic travel distribution (e.g., travelocity.com) businesses, which effects more people. Jana and I work for the logistics group, which develops software for freight transportation companies. We're building a business plan for the EU market as a whole, and as Jana said, we have a major customer in Germany so it made the most sense.
Jana: Although very excited about this adventure, I was a little more apprehensive since we were going to Germany. The reason is that I knew less about Germany than I did about England and France. The first thing we did though was research, starting online. There is no shortage of information. Actually just the opposite; there is so much, it is overwhelming to try to sort through it all. But as we did, we really got excited about Germany. (I have to add a thank you to Hyde here, as the German Way site is the best place to start for information. Our research would have been much more focused had I found this site, the book, and forum earlier in our process.) What was your biggest surprise after arriving in Berlin? Jana: Definitely the grocery store. I expected things like the meats to be different and not to have many or any of the same brands, but I certainly didn't expect to not be able to find brown sugar or graham crackers! Maybe even more surprising was the difference in shopping habits/process. Of course we learned everything the hard way. For example, it is common to have to weigh your own vegetables and fruits before going to the checkout stand (Kasse). I've been yelled at for that! And I'm embarrassed to say how long it has taken me to remember to bring my own shopping bags and a mark (for the cart). I never realized how many habits that I had that are based on the US way of life. It is amusing and good to know, but, as a warning to those considering becoming expats, it does get tiring. There are certainly days when I wish that things would just be "easy." Not all the time, but just for that day. Those occur about once a month. Evan: I would expand on Jana's comment to say that through our research we, thankfully, had our expectations set properly for the major issues (e.g., housing, culture, home set-up). That just left a bunch of "little things" to surprise us. Even now it'll be hard to remember all of them, but besides the grocery store, there are differences in restaurants, like having to ask for the bill and paying, including tip, when the bill is presented; differences in driving, like figuring out the Parkschein Automat (parking coupon machine), or driving rules and signs that are just different enough to make an American a hazard on the road; differences in movie theaters, like avoiding the reserved seats. (The prime seats in some German movie theaters are reserved and you pay extra for them.) The move was a major change for us in another way, in that we lived on seven acres of land with a good-sized house in New Hampshire. Here we're in an apartment in the middle of a metropolis. We, and our two dogs, like it; but we'll be looking to get back to some land in the future. Finally, instead of writing checks, most bill payments are made through Germany's inter-bank payment system. It is like a US wire transfer but a German Geldüberweisung is free and everybody can do it easily; you drop a little payment order off at your bank telling them whom to pay and how much (old way) or fill out a payment order on your bank's Web site telling them the same thing (new way). The International Counter at Commerzbank in Berlin (we work with Ms. Casato) caters specifically and well to the needs of expatriates. They're all multilingual and can make things happen that are supposed to be "against the rules." The bank's general Web site in English and German doesn't discuss the Berlin International Counter specifically. How do you handle bill paying for your US-based accounts? Tell me something about your personal experiences with the differences in US and German business cultures. Jana: Funny thing, these are fading. I know that I would have had a list of differences in January and February, but now I find them hard to remember. (I do wonder whether it is age or experience!) One thing that is fresh on my mind, as I have just visited the States is the friendliness of the customer service in the US versus Germany. This one I have to explain more, I know, as it has been a heated topic of discussion on the German Way forum at times. I think in general the bottom line, after participating in a few rounds of discussion on this, is that people are most comfortable with the type of service they've had as they grew up. In general, this means that Germans are used to a more formal and focused interaction... think "Dragnet" ("Just the facts, ma'am."), whereas Americans have a more social encounter. Americans (including myself) sometimes feel as if the German way is rude, as they expect to be treated as a Customer (with a strong capital C), whereas Germans find the American way, at best, time wasting/insincere, and at worst, an invasion of privacy. The main point is that when you are expecting one, receiving the other is usually a disappointment. You make a good point about how important our culture-based expectations are. How about your own working experiences in Germany? Work councils are something that I have never experienced in the US and it is a concept I know I don't fully understand yet, but I will try to explain. The idea is an employee group that will work with management to make sure that the voices of the employees are heard, as well as protect the employee from any unfair practices. Similar to unions, with the biggest exception being they are not organized between companies and from my understanding every company has work councils, including small companies. I think there are good and bad qualities about work councils, just as there are with not having them. One other difference is that Germans are much more conservative in business. In general, they love to analyze and they want numbers on every occasion. "Soft benefits" of a product or service are not considered. They are focused on the hard, bottom-line benefits. I think the US tends to go towards the other end of the spectrum, but is probably closer to the middle than the Germans are. |
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PHOTO: Jana and Evan (on right) at Berlin's Brandenburg Gate on the night of New Year's Day 1999. |
 Evan: As Jana says, our experience with the German business culture has been limited, especially since we have spent more time so far in other EU countries than in Germany. I agree that the Germans are a lot more analytical than Americans are accustomed to. If you have a presentation, and can support all of your points with numbers, graphs and other "hard" data, it will be very well received indeed. I've also noticed more blunt, straightforward talk, which in my book is a good thing because it keeps communications honest and open; but I'm sure there are those who might consider it rude. There is also a natural desire, as there is in every country, to find local solutions to problems. Jana: Another difference I noticed was dress. Now, again, this might be due to my being involved with small software start-ups in Boston, but I find the daily dress to be more formal, but not to any extreme like suits each day! Just more khakis, than jeans; more vests and ties than plain button-downs and polo shirts. Actually, I've noticed this to be true on the streets in general too. I was talking with one of my German friends about how I felt as if I had "AMERICAN" tattooed on my forehead. His response... "We know them by their tennis shoes. Americans always wear tennis shoes." Ha! I hadn't noticed, but I started looking, and sure enough, Germans generally wear more loafer type shoes than tennis shoes. Oh, and one place where I've found dress to be a killer is at trade shows. I have to say the Americans have learned to do trade shows "the right way"... in sneakers, khakis, and polo shirts. Makes standing on hard floors for 10 hours much more bearable. We've been to several trade shows/conferences so far and they are all-suit affairs. For women this means heels and I have to say a month later my feet have still not recovered from a show where I wore heels for 10 hours/day for five days! Yipes! And to be clear, this isn't just Germany, as our shows have been in Paris, Amsterdam, Hannover, etc. All in suits. Evan: Jana definitely has the worst end of the deal on the trade show attire, but after having just convinced our boss in the US that polo shirts and khakis were OK for trade shows, I also hated having to switch back to suits. Jana: Oh, I found one other thing odd. I've seen many German business cards with home address and phone numbers on them. I have not noticed this with other European countries we've visited. Maybe you can explain this, but it does seem strange for a country that values their personal time and privacy. Well, that surprises me, so I just looked through some of the German business cards that I've received in the last year or so. Most have only business contacts listed. But I did discover one that had "privat" printed on the BACK, with a home mailing address and phone. I hadn't even noticed it before. However, it is increasingly common for Germans to list their "Handy" (cell phone) number in addition to their office number. What is your typical business day like? Evan: I agree with Jana that the work hours seem more regular here, born, I think, out of a much greater respect for personal time. People don't seem amenable to the "we'll work all weekend to get it done if we have to" attitude you find in comparable US firms. I don't think there's anything at all wrong with that; in fact I think there's a lot to like about a society that's willing to place a higher value on personal and family life than we often find in the US. What is your office like? Jana: This is a good question, as it reminds me of another difference. In general, US offices have become "cube farms." In some offices, like ours in Boston, even the head of the company is in a cube, a la Andy Grove. I like the German way, where most people (this is true for us at least and I've been told is true for most German offices as well) share an office with one to three other people. I like it, as it still encourages interaction more than "one man, one office" does, but it also reduces interruptions. Evan: Other than the difference Jana mentioned, I agree it's very similar to a US office, with the exception of SMOKING. Sometimes there's absolutely no perceptible stigma in smoking; we've been in small, closed meeting rooms with 12 people where four people are smoking — and the nasty full-strength American brands like Marlboro at that. It's a killer on your dry-cleaning bill, not to mention your lungs. NEXT > Part Two of this Interview Copyright © 1999-2004 Hyde Flippo Also see If you would like to be notified of future expat interviews, you can subscribe to our free e-newsletter, WebNotes, which also will keep you up-to-date about anything new here at the German Way site. More about WebNotes. Top of Page | Previous | Home | Contents | Next
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